Contents 1 The Mark of Zorro 2 Appearances 3 Cleanup 4 Images 5 Article location 5.1 Naming this and other articles 6 Love Interests 7 Cassandra Cain 8 Epilogue 9 Images 10 Batman's Secret Identity 11 The Ears are too long 12 Height and Weight 13 Oracle? 14 Alias

The Mark of Zorro Edit

On the way home from seeing the film, The Mark of Zorro,...

Please provide the episode where the film was referenced or this edit will be reverted. --BoneGnawer 18:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't me, but I know the answer: For the Man Who Has Everything. ― Thailog 18:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes. Its on the marquee in Bruce's dream, no? Thanks. --BoneGnawer 18:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Yup. ― Thailog 18:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Appearances Edit

Since Batman will have even more appearances than Superman, I think the List of Batman Appearances article is more than warranted. --BoneGnawer 16:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Superman's list is still separated because it's "chronological". I don't think there anything wrong in having a long ass appearances list on the character's article if it doesn't take too much space (which is what the {{scroll box}}) template is for). ― Thailog 16:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Why is there nothing about his appearance in the Justice League episode "A Better World" as Batman in the other dimension? That Batman had a little bit of a different life.

Cleanup Edit

There are several sections toward the end of the article that are in need of cleanup for reasons of grammar, spelling and perspective. --BoneGnawer 22:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Images Edit

I think its a good idea to include an image from each series in the article to show the evolution of the character design. I do think that a BTAS image is more appropriate for the main image in the character box, though. BTAS started the whole DCAU, so it was nice to see a BTAS image there. --BoneGnawer 16:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• This passage He was also apparently acquainted with at least some of the other heroes with which he would later found the Justice League, possibly working with some of them as well. is based on the comment made to the alternate Batman in The Savage Time of You've known us for years. --BoneGnawer 23:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• • I put the JLU one there since the Wayne pic at the bottom was from BTAS, but yeah, the way it is now looks a lot better. Great work. CooperTFN 05:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I figure this article and the Superman article should eventually end up being the two biggest articles since Bats and Supes each had at least one series entirely devoted to them, as well as featuring in just about every other DCAU series. --BoneGnawer 16:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• I have reverted the image back to the 200px view of the BTAS headshot. The images were discussed above. BTAS started the DCAU, so a BTAS image should appear as the primary image for the article. Images of the redesigned looks are displayed throughout the article. Also, 400px takes up most of the article when viewing at 1024x768. --BoneGnawer 14:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

• I'd like to suggest that the promotional artworks of Batman be combined and placed somewhere at the bottom for comparison. I think it would be more beneficial to include pictures of Bruce as a child, teenager, and adult. Right now the only pictures of Bruce (not Batman) are as an elderly old man. --Gamehiker 16:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Article location Edit

Something I've been thinking about...do you suppose that, since the overwhelming majority of people who type in/link to "Batman" will be looking for Bruce, we should move this to "Batman", and just put a {{youmay}} template at the top for people who want Terry? I understand the logic of "Batman I", but logistically speaking, it's kind of counterproductive to force every article that mentions Bats to link here specifically, or else force people to go through a disambig page. CooperTFN 05:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• I do agree that Bruce Wayne is the most popular Batman, but Terry McGinnis is also Batman. To remain encyclopedic and unbiased, I think we must keep the current convention, or move "Batman I" and "Batman II" to "Bruce Wayne" and "Terry McGinnis" respectively. The disambig can be placed a little more in-universe (with real-world stuff below in italics, similar to what I've seen at Memory Alpha) using something like this:

Batman is the name of a mysterious vigilante operating in Gotham City. There have been two heroes that have used the identity of Batman, as well as two known alternate universe Batmen and a robot duplicate of the original Batman.

• Bruce Wayne, the original Batman, Gotham City vigilante operating between the late 20th through early 21st centuries and founding member of the Justice League
• Terry McGinnis, the second Batman, Gotham City vigilante operating during the mid to late 21st century and member of the Justice League Unlimited
• Batman (Justice Lord), an alternate universe's Bruce Wayne and member of the Justice Lords
• Batman (Savage Time), an alternate timeline version of Bruce Wayne and leader of the resistance against Vandal Savage's regime.
• Batman (HARDAC duplicate), a robotic duplicate of Bruce Wayne created by the computer H.A.R.D.A.C.

---

You may also be looking for one of the several animated television series, movies, or video games about the exploits of Batman and his partners, such as:

• Batman: The Animated Series
• The New Batman Adventures
• Batman Beyond
• Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
• Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero
• Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker
• Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman
• The Adventures of Batman and Robin (Sega CD)
• Batman: Vengeance
• Batman: Rise of Sin Tzu

Then when you write a "Batman" link in an article you can use either [[Bruce Wayne|Batman]] or [[Batman (Terry McGinnis)|Batman]]

An argument can be made for folding the Justice Lord and Savage Time versions into the Bruce Wayne article, since they both are, in fact, Bruce Wayne. The info could go under a heading like "Alternate Universes/Timelines" with subheadings of "Justice Lords" & "The Savage Time". There's very little to say about those versions of Bruce that a paragraph or two would cover all that we know about them. Of course, I'm just as happy with having the seperate articles.

--BoneGnawer 16:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• I definitely think Justice Lords and Savage Time Bruce should be in the main article. And Batman I is the most popular, of course, but my reasoning was less about that than about what's the simplest thing to do for the site and its users (which, I think, should trump what's deemed more encyclopedic except in extreme circumstances, such as the alter egos issue). Having them at Bruce and Terry occurred to me, but then that would set a precedent for moving all the superheroes to their alter egos, which I'm definitely against. How about the best of both worlds: Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Batman (Terry McGinnis)? There'd still be the issue of whether "Batman" itself goes to Bruce or a disambig, though. CooperTFN 01:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• I agree that Savage Time Bruce belongs in the main article. The more I think of it though, the Justice Lords are clearly distinct entities from, and have interacted with "our" versions of them. Again, while I personally place more importance on Bruce as Batman, I don't think we should make that kind of judgement when Terry has a valid claim on the name. I think that the Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Batman (Terry McGinnis) naming is even more complex than Batman I and Batman II. Bruce Wayne and Terry McGinnis are already redirects. Perhaps we should leave the article naming as it is. As for the Batman article I stand by my above idea for the disambig (but without the Savage Time link). --BoneGnawer 02:11, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• • Yeah, I guess Batman I is better than that. I'm with you about the disambig too, but we should still have a youmay atop both Batmen articles just in case. CooperTFN 03:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• I don't want to impose, but I do realize that eventually this should be the biggest article here. Maybe we should redirect Batman to Batman I, and at the top have a link to the disambiguation page ([[Batman (disambiguation)]]) and a link to Terry's page (Batman II). I could go either way on this issue, but I think Batman deserves to be an exception to the rule.--Tim Thomason 14:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Naming this and other articlesEdit

I know I began using the Roman numeral system a little over a year ago, when I founded this site, but I've been having second thoughts. I doubt that any character has been referred to as "... One" and "... Two" or the like. If two characters share a same title, they should be disambiguated like anyone else.

Here's basically what I propose:

• Move Batman I to Batman (most famous Batman, definitely the one people would be looking for 99% of the time)
• Move Batman II to Batman (Terry McGinnis) (good disambiguation, accepts Terry as "Batman" and not "Batman-2")
• Move Robin II to Robin (with an appropriate link to Nightwing at the top)
• Move Green Lantern II to Green Lantern (most famous in the DCAU definitely, with link to a disambiguation and Kyle at top)
• Move Green Lantern I to Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (he was referred to as "Green Lantern" in STAS, so he deserves at least that much)
• Move Kai-Ro to Green Lantern (Kai-Ro) (I believe he was referred to as "Green Lantern")
• Other Green Lantern Corps members aren't referred to as "Green Lantern" usually, so they shouldn't be moved unless necessary.

I think this makes more sense in the DCAU, where there are less super-heroes with the same name than in DC Comics.--Tim Thomason 18:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Love Interests Edit

I think it would be better to eliminate this section and fold the info into Bats' history. --BoneGnawer 19:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, however, it may be good to have a "Relationships" section and "Love Interests" (or whatever) sub-section, similar to, oh say, this X-Files wiki page. Batman's page will be quite big and he has some fascinating relationships with other heroes, villains, and occassionally a few romantic interests (Phantasm, Susan Maguire, even Batgirl kinda). I added this section from an old Wikipedia section I found, but it should be repackaged more, and for the most part, be included in the history.--Tim Thomason 14:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

2/16 Thanks for pointing out the mess, whoever added that. I re-wrote the relationships a little while ago (since the old one was, like, a paragraph that forgot several key relationship figures), but I wasn't as familiar with the MoS at the time. I'm obscenely tired right now (closing in on 24 hours without sleep), but I'll try and repair it soon.

Question: Do we want more explanation behind each relationship? Or does that detract? I find I have a hard time gaging how much information is too much, too little, and just right.

- NakedSamurai 06:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

As discussed above, this section needs to go away and the information folded into the main "history" section. --BoneGnawer 12:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Batman had a relationship of some sort with the magician Zatanna, the daughter of Zatarra, while Bruce was training in escape artistry. While this relationship didn't last, the two remained friends, with Bruce contacting her from time to time for help. Despite his flirtatious exterior, he still seems to have a long lasting love for his ex-fiancée, Andrea Beaumont. Their engagement ended when Andrea and her family fled to Europe from the mob families of Gotham. Bruce's relationship with Selina Kyle was rather tumultuous. While the chemistry between the two was existent (albeit played down), Selina's true attraction is to Batman. Their differing ways of life, however, hindered their relationship from the start. In his dream world (induced by The Mad Hatter), Bruce and Selina were engaged, though this never came to pass in reality. Though their lifestyles and ideologies varied, Talia al Ghul had (perhaps) the strongest relationship with Bruce of the various women he's seen. Though he had been chosen by Ra's al Ghul to be his successor via wedlock (a proposal Batman declined), a genuine attraction existed between the two. In the end, however, Talia's loyalty to her father prevailed; at each juncture, she chose to follow Ra's than stay with Batman. Bruce Wayne had a brief relationship with Lois Lane, who discovered his secret identity as Batman while he defended her. Lois professed to be in love with Bruce, and had planned on moving to Gotham with him before she learned his secret. In a brief reunion, Lois expressed some semblance of regret, and had even considered trying to work things out with him. In the same exchange, Bruce expressed some sense of regret as well, but did not elaborate. Barbara Gordon fantasized about a relationship with Batman in the Season 3 finale. While she went on to have a relationship with Dick Grayson, the chemistry between Bruce and Barbara surged when she replaced Grayson on the roster. A relationship between the two was hinted at in Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman, a subject Bruce intently avoided. Barbara later revealed to Terry McGinnis that she'd had a romantic relationship with Wayne; however, his devotion to his mission caused the relationship to end. Throughout all of Justice League, a relationship between Batman and Wonder Woman was hinted at. Bruce maintained the two were just friends, though his actions continuously spoke otherwise. Kathy Duquesne and Bruce had a rare on-screen relationship in Mystery of the Batwoman. Her wild personality clashed with Bruce's, but a genuine romance existed. The movie ends with their relationship picking up. The reason for their split is unknown. In his old age, Bruce Wayne was unattached, and does not seem to have ever married.

Above text removed from article. The call for integration into the main article has been out for some time. This needs to be put back into the history section chronologically and using in-universe language. --BoneGnawer 19:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Cassandra Cain Edit

It is important to note that this reality has Cassandra Cain, the Batgirl from the comics

What is the evidence supporting this statement? --BoneGnawer 01:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• It is widely assumed that the girl Tim Drake is chasing in The Savage Time (where Dick and Barbara are kissing) is Cassandra Cain. --Redemption^Talk 03:29, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Wide assumption isn't the same as a verifiable reference. This information would be better as a background note, identified as conjecture, in the article for The Savage Time. --BoneGnawer 10:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Conjecture removed. --BoneGnawer 03:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Epilogue Edit

I was under the assumption that the black and white scenes in the episode Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue", such as Terry angrily confronting Bruce about his true DNA heritage and Bruce scrambling for his pills didn't actually happen, hence their black and white nature, that they were only Terry's supposition of what might happen. After all, in the B&W scenes, Bruce arrogantly admits to being responsible for the DNA tampering, and then we come to find out that he was not. - 66.93.144.171 03:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Bruce doesn't admit anything. Pay careful attention to his words. Bruce (and the writers) don't speak without careful consideration. However as we see in the episode, it was Amanda Waller who did the tampering. What part of the article are you disputing? --BoneGnawer 03:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression the black and white scenes were flashbacks (whether Terry was having them or not), things that had occurred before and up to the break-in. As quite some time had passed between the end of BB and "Epilogue", fans of the series needed to be filled in on a few pieces of information (did Terry ever tell Dana his secret, did Terry actually remain in the JLU, etc). - NakedSamurai 08:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

No, the black and white scenes were Terry's "imagination" of what would happen if he confronted Bruce, which he never did. Nor did he tell Dana. This was confirmed by the producers. There are several clues for this, mainly the clock that Terry smashes in the beginning, it's in one piece at the end. ― Thailog 11:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Images Edit

Does it make more sense to anyone else to place the evolution of the Batsuit into one image near the equipment section and replace the earlier images with actual scene captures? Wikipedia has one ([1]) that, with editing (provided that doesn't infringe upon copyrights) would work well (and we would cite it, of course). - NakedSamurai 05:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I have an idea in the same vein, but just a little different.

The existing images of the batsuit evolution should probably move to Batsuit. Then screenshots can be placed in this article where the character models are now. --BoneGnawer 17:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I like that. ― Thailog 10:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I've started expanding the Batsuit article. The character models can be replaced on this article anytime. --BoneGnawer 23:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Batman's Secret Identity Edit

In the episode Epilogue, Ace read Batman's mind. Is it possible that she also knows his secret identity? -Thejluninja 11:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

In Return of the Joker, didn't Joker AND Harley discover Batman's identity? I assumed she found out Bruce was Batman when she and Joker learned Tim Drake was Robin, also, she was the one filming the "our family memories" video when Joker interrogated Tim and brainwashed him.--70.111.120.33 17:41, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, it seems like a lot of speculation on our behalf. I'd like to hear what others think. ― Thailog 19:53, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

• While it is speculation, I would like to think when Harley reformed after ROTJ, she kept Bruce's secret out of respect.--70.111.125.67 18:24, March 3, 2010 (UTC

• Would anyone else like to give an opinion?

• The Joker said "secrets that are mine and mine alone to know... Bruce". -noblethrasher

The Ears are too long Edit

Something odd that I just realized is that in Return Of the Joker,Joker compares terry's suit to the orignal stating that the ears are too long, yet in the justice league they are the size of terry's is that a production inconcicentcy.Avatar symbiote 00:41, December 22, 2010 (UTC) Avatar symbiote

Height and Weight Edit

The article currently lists him as 6'2" and 210 pounds. What is the source for this? In "Wild Cards Part 1", an image clearly lists him as 6'3" and 240 pounds. This may simply be conjecture by the Joker, but it may also be correct. Is there a more reliable source for the 6'2" 210 lb figure? -- Aisynia 20:29, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

The character bios on the DVDs of Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker and Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman give different stats:

• MOTB: 6'2" and 210 lbs
• ROTJ: 6'1" and 195 lbs

The ROTJ numbers represent Old Bruce, so I'd go with the MOTB figures (which are the same as the mainstream Batman's). Joker's (or the bookie's) stats may be in error. -- Tupka²¹⁷ 21:10, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

Oracle? Edit

Would anyone have any objection to me adding a remark in the "passing the mantle..." section that he more or less falls into the same role that Barbara Gordon did in the comics; namely, The Oracle, assisting Terry-Batman with a computer and a voicelink in the Batsuit? I don't have any sources saying it was fully intentional, but if not, the parallels are staggering and may very well be worth remarking on, if not necessarily outright stating it to be the intended dynamic.--OzzMan 15:48, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Because it would be out-of-universe. --Tupka²¹⁷ 16:49, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by "out-of-universe". Could you be a little more specific?--OzzMan 17:56, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

"Out-of-universe" and "In-universe" are terms you'd best be familiar with, as they pop up quite often on wiki talk pages. History sections should be written as if you are a chronicler in the DCAU, not an actual person in the real world. Commentary would be out-of-universe. --Tupka²¹⁷ 18:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

So it's out-of-universe because it requires knowledge of things not explicitly contained within the DCAU? So maybe this kind of information would be better suited to the Background Information section then? Because I think it's important to note the similarities here: both Batman Beyond-Bruce and DC comics-Barbara were no longer able to serve as costumed crimefighters, partially and completely due to injuries sustained from the Joker, respectively; both then took up a support role to Batman where they man a computer and talk to Batman through a headset. The distinction I'm trying to make here is that Bruce is still a superhero. He's no different from Oracle, who is referred to as a superheroine just the same in her new role.It's an important marker of evolution in the Batman character. OzzMan 19:06, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Under Background Information, it's okay to go out of universe. By all means, add it there. --Tupka²¹⁷ 19:41, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Alias Edit

When was Batman referred to as the world's greatest detective? -- The Talk Goblin 19:11, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Don't recall. Maybe "I've Got Batman in My Basement"? --Tupka²¹⁷ 19:13, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Andrea Beaumont did in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. -- CJSFan^{On Stranger Tides, Arkham City} 11:27, May 11, 2013 (UTC)